In this provocative conversation on authentic education, and the relationships between higher education, spirituality, and mysticism, Dr. Arthur Versluis is joined by Dr. Richard Matthew Doyle, Edwin Erle Sparks Professor of English, whose books include Darwin’s Pharmacy, The Genesis of Now, On Beyond Living: Rhetorical Transformations of the Life Sciences, and with Gary Weber, Into the Stillness. He has taught a wide range of courses on unusual subjects at Pennsylvania State University, and is here today to talk about authentic education with Dr. Joshua Dicaglio, an Assistant Professor of English Texas A&M University, who studies rhetoric, science, and mysticism as intersecting modes of discourse. His book, Scale Theory: A Nondisciplinary Inquiry, was released in 2021 with the University of Minnesota Press. He also writes and teaches about ecocriticism and environmental rhetoric, science and technology studies (STS), science fiction, technical writing, critical theory, history of rhetoric, rhetorical theory, and Advaitan and Buddhist philosophies of language.